Of course.
*From an article on Yahoo: Land a Government Job Now.
Update:
**Thanks, Instapundit!
***There are some interesting comments to this post. Let me please clarify a few things – I’m not putting down people who work in government or government jobs. I know many dedicated, honest, hard-working people who work for government, and my own place of work benefits from government grants, so, yeah, thanks taxpayers! My point is this: isn’t it funny the above is such a common perception, how much of that perception is true, and is government as efficient and cost-effective at delivering services as it could be? What do you think?
****Comment moderation is on and I may not be able to get to your comment right away, but I will eventually. Life, work and all that 
And, I love this by commenter Jeff below, “You want to make a difference, but realize that the management above you, who have different ideas then you, will make the decisions even though people in the trenches have very good ideas.” I think this is true of ANY bureaucracy, public or private, and a hazard of any large organization. I’m flummoxed as to how you solve this problem, effectively, even with all the new management ideas like LEAN, etc.
*****And this comment by ‘Anonymous Air Force Officer’ is great, too: If you think all government employees get “moderate work hours, unmatched job security, great benefits, and ample vacation and holidays” you should try life as a military officer. Thank you for the hard work that you do. But, again, look at the linked article on Yahoo: I didn’t come up with the quote above, I merely excerpted and linked it. Jobs are growing fastest in the government sector – is this a good thing for our country? I don’t think it is, but as you can see, opinions differ.
36 responses so far ↓
David Becker // May 31, 2009 at 11:10 am |
I once tried to apply for a job with the Postal Service (Seattle, 1975.), basically to keep food on the table. They told me, “don’t bother, we aren’t hiring white males.” (This is actually true.) That’s when I stopped being a Democrat.
jeff // May 31, 2009 at 11:28 am |
As a 18 year State worker (geologist), the pot is pretty nice, but there is a price. Anyone who is a self starter and a hard worker, it can be a soul sucking experience.
I worked five years as a consultant, but was facing a down turn with little work in the future. Over 60 percent of the staff was already let go. It was a matter of time before I was shown the door. Since we were newly married and we had bought our first house, I looked for some stability and got a state job.
I was surprised at first of the number of dedicated hard working people. But there is a large amount of people who coast and are not held accountable. It is very difficult to fire someone. Whats worse, is the discrepancy between areas. Some sections have very little to do and since government work is so compartmentized or almost unionized without the dues, there is no balance.
A hard worker can get demoralized over the years and finally succumb to that pull to slack. You want to make a difference, but realize that the management above you, who have different ideas then you, will make the decisions even though people in the trenches have very good ideas.
I only work my 40 hours, unless I need some comp time. Paid overtime is rare. I have enjoyed the soft hours to be home for my son. I maybe “underpaid” based on a yearly salary, but probably not when you factor in the lower amount of hours I work.
TRO // May 31, 2009 at 1:05 pm |
Should I thank myself because I pay taxes too . . . just like all federal employees. And as to the moderate hours. Is a minimum 40 hour week moderate? I thought that was the norm for most jobs – private or public. I routinely work 50 hours a week with no overtime though so I guess I should feel a little less guilty for having a job and being able to provide for my family.
TRO // May 31, 2009 at 1:07 pm |
BTW, aren’t law professor jobs at public colleges also government jobs?
Engineer Guy // May 31, 2009 at 6:51 pm |
Glad you brought that up! I’ve been thinking that about Glenn Reynolds for a very long time.
I generally like his blog, but what kind mind does it take to be a libertarian state employee?
Attila of Argghhh! // May 31, 2009 at 1:40 pm |
Well, there is ONE government job that ain;t exactly cushy: the military.
In one year I had three 44-hour-straight work days
Retirement is OK…if you live long enough.
The higher you go, the LESS job security you have (commissioned officers have an “up or out” policy…if you don’t get promoted, you are asked to leave, although there are exceptions made on a case-by-case basis, but the vast majority of those passed over are shown the door).
You pay MORE taxes than most federal workers and the retirement plan is a little different (ability to retire earlier but for less pension).
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great life if you’re into belonging to, and working for, something bigger than yourself. BUT…there are government jobs and there are government jobs…
onparkstreet // May 31, 2009 at 2:03 pm |
Absolutely fantastic point, we ask a lot of our military, don’t we?
JLP // May 31, 2009 at 1:50 pm |
I work for DoD…23 years. It is a very lovely job I must say. Except when I was traveling 3 weeks out of every month with kids in grade school or when I have to do my job and the jobs of three of my employees who have RIPed (Retired In Place). Since, I can’t fire them for non-performance because it’s easier and less time consuming for me to do their jobs. Even if I managed to cross all the t’s and dot all the i’s int he firing process, in the end they would grieve the process and they would still be back at work RIPed after a month sitting at home with no pay. Then they would get their pay back and a little something on the side to keep them mollified until they got a VSIP or a medical…..
PD Quig // May 31, 2009 at 1:52 pm |
Wherever did you arrive at the notion that as a government employee that you “pay taxes”? Bad at arithmetic? All government employees derive their salaries directly from the taxes paid by private sector workers. So, if you make $70,000 per year that salary is actually a negative income tax. On April 15th you then go through the motions and return $15,000 to the government, netting $55,000 in the deal. We—the 85 percent in the private sector—earn money by working for companies that provide enough value to their customers that those customers freely agree to pay for the goods and services. The taxes we pay are offset only by the tiny margin of value we receive from the state’s goods and services—far less than the $55,000 you get to put in the bank for your family every year.
Stop kidding yourself. You may or may not be adding value, but you are not a taxpayer. You are a taxeater.
tehart01 // May 31, 2009 at 2:20 pm |
The government is stultifying, and the hiring and promotion processes are both based on knowing the right people. If you get the wrong job at the start of your career, you can be stuck there for years. I know because it happened to me. I finally left and spent 20 years in the private sector before I retired. Now I may have to go back to work because the gov’t has screwed the economy.
Pixelkiller // May 31, 2009 at 2:52 pm |
Remember this? Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach. Add to that this: and, those who can’t even teach, get a government job.
jeff // May 31, 2009 at 3:33 pm |
I thought those who could not teach became journalists?
An Average American // June 3, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Hmm, not so much anymore. Maybe they become bloggers.
Mike M. // May 31, 2009 at 3:39 pm |
Another DOD employee here…28 years. I can’t claim any 44-hour days, just a 20-hour day and a slew of 12-16 hour days. Spent three years traveling 250+ days per year. And for the last 30 months, I’ve enjoyed the dubious charms of working a 50-hour week – including holidays, evenings, and weekends. YOU got Memorial Day weekend off. I didn’t.
And I’m seeing a trend here….
An Average American // June 3, 2009 at 10:56 pm |
No, I didn’t get the Memorial Day weekend off either, and I’ve worked at the same private sector company for the past 23 years. I haven’t been able to take a weekend off for over 2 years. Every once in a while there’s a weekend where I wind up not working, but I’m “on-call” at all times (and no I’m not a physician).
As a DoD employee you probably have a defined benefit retirement plan. I have a defined contribution plan. A year ago, it was a 401(k), now it’s a 201(k).
kentuckyliz // May 31, 2009 at 3:44 pm |
It just goes to show how the employment situation of employees in the private sector have deteriorated so badly, that a government job seems like a good thing. Everyone else is a migrant grape picker by comparison. Sad.
J.J.J.J. Jamison // May 31, 2009 at 4:15 pm |
“…in the end they would grieve the process….”
I love government speak!
You can be sure I’ll be using the phrase “grieve the process”.
Anonymous Air Force Officer // May 31, 2009 at 4:45 pm |
If you think all government employees get “moderate work hours, unmatched job security, great benefits, and ample vacation and holidays” you should try life as a military officer.
60 hour weeks are routine, and the stress with that comes along with knowing that one bad annual review (aka officer progress report or OPR) can kill your career. Great benefits? have you ever had an experience at a military hospital? As to ample vacations and holidays? sure, i get 30 days of paid vacation a year, which I have to use to go home every thanksgiving and christmas, because the government tells me where I will live.
Not to complain, it’s the price of freedom. It can be annoying, however, when people make it out to be a as if I landed in a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
TRO // May 31, 2009 at 5:25 pm |
PD Quig said: “You may or may not be adding value, but you are not a taxpayer. You are a taxeater.”
Every person who pays taxes is a taxeater. That is unless you never use any public services whatsoever and live in a cave out on the woods somewhere. I don’t know how much you pay in taxes but I am willing to bet my taxpayer-funded salary that it is far less that the cost of the public services you receive or are eligible to receive.
So let’s give the sanctimony a rest shall we.
TRO // May 31, 2009 at 5:26 pm |
“Remember this? Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach. Add to that this: and, those who can’t even teach, get a government job.”
Actually, I thought those who cannot do went to work for my private cable company. But hell, what do I know, I’m just a dumb government employee.
Tom // May 31, 2009 at 5:56 pm |
OK. I am a mid-level marketing and finance executive in the tech sector in Silicon Valley. Make about $200K. Age 35.
Since Silicon Valley will be crushed by CA state + Federal taxes soon, and the tech sector does not have the lobbying clout that auto and banking industries do, it is inevitable that the US tech industry will trickle away to Asia.
Thus, I have two choices in the next few years :
a) Move to Asia.
b) Try to get a public sector job in the US.
Questions :
1) What would be a good public-sector career for me?
2) How do I go about applying for such a job?
Toads // May 31, 2009 at 6:06 pm |
Remember, the black woman who was tasked with digging up dirt on Joe the Plumber was in a government job earning $142K a year, that too in supercheap Toledo, OH. On such pay in Toledo, you can easily own a 5000 square foot house.
Her job was some bullshit like ‘Director of Human Issues’ or something.
In the private sector, she would be a cleaning lady at minimum wage.
hagbard // May 31, 2009 at 8:06 pm |
TRO
I’m pretty darn sure that on net I pay *way* more federal income and payroll taxes than I get in benefits.
I pay more in income + payroll taxes than I pay for housing, transportation, medicare care, and food combined (I’m frugal).
Could you name what I get back for that incredible sum of money?
Just to help avoid confusion, here are a few things I *do* get from government but that are *not* funded out of my federal government income + payroll taxes:
1) Roads (federal highway funding by statute comes from a rolling average of gas taxes, not income or payroll taxes)
2) Police (local taxes, not federal)
3) Firemen (local taxes, not federal taxes)
basically, almost all of the benefits I get are either local, or come from what amounts to use taxes (like gas taxes).
TRO // May 31, 2009 at 9:44 pm |
Hagbard,
Seriously, you pay more in income taxes than you pay for housing, transportation and medical care? You are, indeed, very frugall
But what about the DoD for example? Is defense worth some of your income taxes? The Department of Justice? You do want some federal crimes investigated and prosecuted I imagine? It costs money to keep track of terrorists. How about federal parks and national forests? Is that a good use of your money? I could go on and on and the thing is, yes, much of what the government does is waste and you don’t see a benefit, but lots of it is stuff you use or other citizens use and that you could use if you wanted.
And why are you even mentioning payroll taxes? Unless I am wrong they pay for social security benefits not federal employees salaries and benefits.
And, Tom, you aren’t going to pull in $200k a year in finance in the federal government. You might get a entry level job of a GS 9 or 11 making from about 46k to 55K starting. That is if you can find one because much of that work is being contracted out to the private sector.
I haven’t a clue about marketing but entry level jobs for someone with your experience might be about the same.
Mike M. // May 31, 2009 at 10:26 pm |
I’m seeing two trends here and elsewhere.
First, state and local governments are far more generous than the Federal government.
Second, the Department of Defense is a far harsher employer than other Federal organizations. Harsher than most private sector employers, too.
PD Quig // June 1, 2009 at 2:29 am |
TRO, no sanctimony, just–again–arithmetic. Of course there are those in the public sector who work hard and contribute immensely. But that doesn’t negate the fact that you are consuming taxes, not paying them. Sorry if the appellation ‘taxeater’ had an uncomfortable connotation for you, but the fact is that net-net you’re not paying taxes. My solution? The Yellow Pages Test: if you can find it in the Yellow Pages, no government should be doing it.
Engineer Guy // June 1, 2009 at 11:31 am |
So you’re a “profit-eater” then?
I don’t think you’ve thought things through. Perhaps a reworking of your arithmetic is in order.
PD Quig // August 25, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Engineer Guy,
This thread is probably dead, but in cleaning up old bookmarks I landed here again and saw your comment.
Your financial assumption is flawed (I assume that’s why you’re an engineer), and my arithmetic is just fine. I would be a profit eater only if my services could be dispensed with without lowering my company’s overall profitability. My company has made the judgment that my services contribute significantly enough to its profitability that my continued employment is a net positive for them. If what I do for them could be done by a lower salary person–or if my services could be dispensed with entirely–then they would be foolish not to jettison me. Knowing our management, they almost certainly would.
The 85 percent of us in the private sector pay for 100 percent of everything that happens in this country. Even when the money is borrowed from future generations, the loan will be repayed only by those working in the private sector. I don’t see why this is so hard for some to grasp.
miriam // June 1, 2009 at 2:56 am |
The town where I worked was a part of the New Jersey Civil Service system and it was virtually impossible to get rid of anyone, no matter how lazy or insubordinate.
It can be done, but only by dint of persistence and a long, long paper trail.
http://miriamsideas.blogspot.com/2007/07/my-worst-employees.html
Roger Godby // June 1, 2009 at 4:44 am |
Government jobs must be like academia. Once you’re tenured, it’s easy to shift into coast mode. That’s assuming you’ve kissed enough ass and think correctly enough to score tenure. During the current economic slump, it’s nice to have but that grass is looking green in places where those with ability and initiative sometimes get rewarded for it instead of attacked.
JB // June 1, 2009 at 4:47 am |
Anyone who works for the government is on WELFARE.
Carly // June 1, 2009 at 2:20 pm |
When I was a college senior in 1974, the government administered a test for hiring. The test was no laugher. It was somewhat rigorous. Jimmy Carter did away with the traditional test in 1981 because it didn’t produce a diverse enough pool of government employees. Now I think they may administer one, but it weeds out only illiterates. (Note an exception: the military administers IQ tests to applicants, and places them based on the results of those tests.) I know there are still a lot of competent people working for the government, but some are pretty bad and unmotivated, just doing time.
The problem is not necessarily that government employees are on welfare. We need a competent civil service. Wouldn’t it be nice to interact with IRS agents who are not clueless?
bandit // June 1, 2009 at 2:31 pm |
My wife is from a political family in MA. She had a number of relatives who were incredibly able to transition from totally unrelated fields into top jobs in the Fed gov’t. Then they were able to take early retirement packages and in some cases continue to work. I worked as a subcontractor on an IT project to develop the new Mass Health web portal for the State of MA – worst job I ever had – project was 100% over budget and on schedule to be at least a year late when I left – we were cautioned never to speak on record about the project to anyone and that no matter how much the project was over budget it would be funded and completed. Because it’s the national model. Keep that in mind.
Cap'n Dan // June 1, 2009 at 10:39 pm |
31 years here, working for DOD. I’ve had some years when the workload required much more than 40 hrs per week, some when I was on travel half the time. I didn’t mind those too much, the work was exciting, and there is a sense that you’re really contributing to the success and welfare of the troops. The benefits package and tenure situation is nice, and I’ll retire comfortably under CSRS in a few years. What you folks on the outside don’t see is that we pay for all of that in lower salaries. I’m a senior engineer in my 50s, at the top of the GS ladder, managing programs worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and my salary this year will be $140K. And a mid-level marketing guy makes $200K in California? There are only 2 jobs in the federal government that pay that much. Even the Congressional Budget Office agrees that civil servants in most areas make much less in annual salary than those in comparable jobs on the outside. Every year the issue of pay comparability comes up, and the administration says, “Can’t afford it. Maybe next year.” Oh, and by the way, we pay the same income taxes you do, on the same scale.
An Average American // June 3, 2009 at 10:49 pm |
PD Quig,
Excellent point in general, but why do you say, “All government employees derive their salaries directly from the taxes paid by private sector workers.”?
If only! Unfortunately our governments at all levels have decided that they can’t fleece the population of taxpayers too severely right now because we might not re-elect them. So they are borrowing money to transfer the debt to future generations.
Many government worker’s salaries are paid by Chinese investment in T-Bills at the expense of raising the standard of living of their own people. They do this because they need the US market, but for how long will that model be sustainable.
onparkstreet // June 4, 2009 at 3:33 am |
Good comments all, especially An Average American. Wow, that does not sound the least bit sustainable….